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Good morning, good afternoon and good evening wherever you are in the world, welcome to EV News Daily for Sunday 30th January. It’s Martyn Lee here and I go through every EV story so you don’t have to.
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250 miles has been more than adequate for me. As I drive on average 80 miles/day. Increasing availability of reliable DC fast charging infrastructure I think is a better solution than building 500 mile range vehicles, since the industry is currently battery supply constrained, and better charging infrastructure would allow us to create more EVs w/ smaller batteries. The typical ICE driver is not very concerned about range due the ubiquity of fueling locations.
I think the ideal EV range is 300 miles, this gives a reliable year round 200 miles between charges and a buffer available to find a working charger if the first one you find is busy or not working, most importantly on a long journey this ensures you take a regular 30 minute break whilst charging.
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My answer would be NO. It’s been my experience each time EVs reach a new max range, I hear anti-EV critics say, “oh call me back when they can do 200 miles, then 300 now 400-500”. Although fossil cars can do 500 miles, there’s no reason we have to expect EVs to follow this model.
There has to be a limit to where the extra battery weight, resources and cost outweigh the range benefits. I personally would put that “sweet spot” at about 250-300 miles range.
There ought to be a good choice at the 250-300 range at a price the average person can afford.
My reasoning being that average drive per day (and similar US) is less than 30 miles. Hence 250-300 Mile EV in many cases would run up to a week between charges. If doing a trip longer than 250/300 miles your going to have driven on motorway a good 5 hrs, during that time natural food/toilet breaks allow for top up charging on rapid chargers. Road safety recommends a min 15 min break after 2 hrs constant driving.
At end of the day , when using battery resources I’d rather an automaker made 2 cars with a range of 250 miles than just one with 500 miles that would rarely ever use that extra capacity.
For EVs range is key basis of competition, like horsepower in muscle cars more is always better, but like horsepower its not a question of need but customer wants.
Range is a barrier to adoption at 500 miles its hard for anyone to argue an EV won’t get them to where they want to go. As ranges increase particularly in more affordable models the hurdle to buy becomes lower and adoptions faster.
yes, EVs definitely that type of range…at least in the US.
while we now live somewhere that actually has charger access, nothing allows us range to get out to see either of our parents (which is why we moved to where we did). one family is just over 200 miles away (which some are hitting with leftover range) and the other is just over 350 miles away (nothing is close). the good news is that there is an EV charger on the way to the 350 mile house (but charging sounds like it will add 45-60 minutes to the drive. if the charger is open). the maps “say” there is a charging station to the other house, but that would be a rough thing to get stuck on (to either place) since there is a whole lot of nothing around
with that said, i will not be able to afford any ev for the foreseeable future (even if i am looking to be able to break up the drive)
ZAC MOSELEY, Classic Car Club Manhattan
That’s a solid “no” from me. I’ve had the great privilege of driving a Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo in recent months and the 220ish real world miles I pull out of it even in cold weather is fine. While I’d enjoy having a bit of a buffer with a 300 miles range car eventually, I can’t see ever needing more than that.
What I do want is a car that can deliver 250 to 300 miles with less weight, less cost and greater efficiency. As awesome as the Taycan is, imagine how much better it would be with a battery that weighs half as much. You don’t need to haul around the extra weight and in a performance car like the Taycan, dropping weight would pay massive dividends in handling, braking and acceleration. I can’t wait to see where this goes.
Hearing the United States, especially out West. There are long distances between towns and charging and all that so it’s really important that we have more range in our vehicles. Some places are more rural and do not have access to charging infrastructure.
This week’s question of the week is simple. No one really “Needs” 500 miles of range but we would all “want” 500 miles of range, assuming cost was not an issue. I cant remember the exact data but the 42 miles of range that the original Volt gave covered 80% to 85% of use cases. I would assume that less than 1% of use cases would require 500 miles of range.
JIM IANNONE, TOLEDO OHIO
I think the current mileage on average vehicles is determined by the fuel type. It costs more in space and efficiency to lug around 30 gallons in a Honda Civic than a Deisel Ford F-350.
But the Honda Crosstour has an 18 gallon tank capacity and goes something like 460 miles between fill-ups.
And while the average driver should not go more than three to four hours driving without stopping, future self-driving vehicles won’t have that limitation (ok – the passengers still will).
Soon – 10 years? – the battery technology will be such that 500 miles may be the minimum. If the technology is cheap enough then more mileage will always be a selling point. Ok – 800 miles? 1200 miles? Yes I guess we’ll always be asking the question “at what point?”
I think mileage will be sold in a more flipped-around way: rather than selling a normal battery and charging extra for the extended range, the normal battery will go very far and the reduced range battery will be used to lower the price.
(OK that’s how it is now but I think you know what I mean)..
I think 500 miles should honestly be the target most EV’s try to reach with 70 MPH tests.
To truly shut down range anxiety, a solid goal should be 350-400 miles (a typical gas range) AFTER considering things like:
- Battery degradation
- Using A/C or heat
- Having 3 other passengers
- Running chargers or some other auxiliary devices
- Most importantly, driving in the fast or toll lanes (typically 80-85MPH where I’m from).
It’s becoming an embarrassing trope here to see Teslas strolling along in the slow lanes, despite having super-car abilities.
There is definitely a solid market demand for low range vehicles for typical day-to-day driving, but here in the US most people eventually need a long range option for non-day-to-day things like longer business trips, beach trips, airport runs, and the like.
NELSOM FROM CANADA
Living in the prairies of Canada, the current temperature is -28 degrees Celsius. As EV enthusiasts, we all know how the cold can affect range. Earlier EVs would lose up to 50% of their range in the cold. So, 500 Miles doesn’t seem so outrageous in this climate. However, newer EVs seem less affected by the cold due to better battery chemistries and newer tech like heat pumps. It would be interesting to see what the real-world range would like in here. I also wouldn’t mind volunteering to test it out.
I had a 551 mile road trip from DC to Charleston SC this past Friday. It happened to be 20 degrees (F) and blowing snow and ice the entire way. The trip required four additional charges at Electrify America locations on I-95 in My 2019 Audi etron. I had the family with me and we set the cruise control at 75 for the most part while keeping the cabin well heated, but at the end of the day, I was lucky to get 180 miles of range with charges varying between 80 and 96 percent. I will say that there was hundreds of pounds of ice on the car (EV’s don’t have heat to melt ice and snow on the hood) which also exacerbated the problem but four stops added two hours to an already long trip late at night. Oh by the way, Walmart’s and Target’s are all closed at 2:30 am when you pull into Electrify America.
So the ride was spectacular. The Audi cruise control worked spectacularly in the elements and we felt safe the entire time. The car is more comfortable that any I have ever driven in. However, the cold weather range is for early adapters only. Two hours of charging with a family in the car is testing at best
My answer to your question is no, I don’t think the average person generally needs 500 miles of range and it’s probably a waste of resources for carmakers to pursue an arms race to that level across the board.
1) I’m sure luxury cars like the Air will continue to push the range envelope and that will always be cool (and hopefully provide tech and efficiency gains that trickle down to more affordable EVs).
2) I live in California and we typically have much longer driving distances than many. And many Californians love their road trips. Even the fastest charging EV would add significant time to a trip from the Bay Area to LA or Tahoe. Real world range at 75mph that could get me 350 miles (distance to LA) or 250 miles from sea level up to 6,000 feet in the cold (Tahoe) would make the decision to buy an EV far easier to justify for our family… And that might mean EPA ranges that creep toward 500 at least for us.
IAN FROM GERMANY
Do we ever need a car that can go 500 miles? Erm no, but yeah. What we may need is a car that will go 200-250 miles in bad weather in hilly terrain while towing. Any combination of these conditions can severely impact potential range hence the need for a higher range. That being said such a vehicle would probably not be needed for 90+ percent of the time so the ability to hire such a vehicle would be more important than owning one.
At the moment, definitely Yes.
While there is so much FUD and couch experts that never tried EVs, and don’t drive more that few miles everyday, but who “need” cars that has range that match ICE car range.
Probably most often sceptics will say they need max range and until EVs don’t match, they are not interested. That’s why we need cars with 500+ miles of range, so that if needed there is an EV to point at. Doesn’t matter that only a fraction of that range will be used.
And when EVs will be as common as ICE then no one will care and even small batteries and shorter range will be fine.
Same as with ICE cars now. Most weekend or super cars have shorter range that some EVs but no one cares.
Do we need 500 miles range in an EV? I would argue yes we do. Not for practical reasons, because hardly anyone will need to drive that far between stops. The reason we need it is to do with discussions in the pub between EV drivers and non-EV drivers. We see the nonsense in the press looking for any way to throw shade on EVs (looking at you, Daily Telegraph), intentional FUD from car manufacturers lagging behind the curve (Toyota et al), active resistance to the charging infrastructure industry (funny how when Ecotricity was nurturing a bad reputation by neglecting the Electric Highway no one complained about their exclusive agreement with so many motorway service stations, but as soon as a competent organisation bought it out, a complaint to the monopolies commission appears out of nowhere – looking at you, petrol industry). My neighbours still like to nod wisely to each other and mutter about the charging infrastructure not being ready yet, and happily going out and buying brand new ICE cars.
Against all this, having a 500 mile EV in the media is a much needed antidote to all this BS.
DAVID AND LISA ALLEN
Yes. And a 300, and a 200. Different ranges for different trim levels. If the buyer wants a longer range car, then they can pay the longer range price. If they are comfortable with 200 miles, they can buy the cheaper car. This is one of those “let the market decide” situations.
“I think there’s a niche market for those who tow in places like Nordics, but generally.. No. I want companies to aim for efficiency like EQXX. That is the future. Save the precious resources where they are utilized the most.”
JEREMY FROM CHICAGO
Well I’m going to wimp out on this one, because the answer is yes AND no. No, you don’t need a car with a 500-mile range if you can plug in every night. What’s the point? BUT – not all of us CAN plug in every night. I live in a dense urban area and don’t own a garage, so charging at a public DC fast charger is not unlike going to the gas station, which I try to do as little as possible. I’d love an EV with a 500-mile range because I could forget about charging for weeks at a time, much as I do now with gas fill- ps. Still – don’t think I’ll be parking a 500-mile Lucid on a city street anytime soon…
Range Matters a lot for towing and also in cold weather ..im not sure you would ever carry a kayak or pull a trailer with a lucid air ..i have tossed it around waiting on rivian or the cybertruck though lol
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